Death by silence?

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Death by silence?

Post  Sean on Fri Oct 03, 2008 7:45 pm

in comments on the blog regarding (my dismay about ) lack of WC community involvement so far, jsto said... "You have to grow and cultivate. It's like a garden. Takes time and care."

Respectfully, I disagree. Ok, to a point, she's right. but the core of her fanbase should be all over this thing already. WC has been open for 2-ish weeks. Jess announced it on her site, twitter and email. This isn't an elite secret. It isn't as if her supporters don't know. And by their absense, the logical conclusion is that they don't really care. In two weeks, they can't be bothered to find 5 minutes to post something? or email? Not only does Artemis Eternal deserve better, so does Jessica. I realize that some of them have other conflicting obligations, or they aren't ready to post yet. And they are excused. But where is the majority? I mean, even Jess made the time to add something.

Quoting Abraham Maslow :
“Classic economic theory, based as it is on an inadequate theory of human motivation, could be revolutionized by accepting the reality of higher human needs, including the impulse to self actualization and the love for the highest values.”

What is that inadequate theory of human motivation? Mere subsistence; concerning ourselves with fulfilling basic mercurial desires. Higher values and enlightened self-interest are neglected in favor of primal & "practical" satisfaction. This is not a failure of the project, but of the public to acknowledge higher values. A failure to genuinely care. There is a gross disconnect between belief and action.
Barbara Branden— a fan and friend of Ayn Rand—noted sadly that the kind of people Ayn celebrated in her novels (and who should have appreciated her advocacy) failed to endorse her novels publically.
How does this happen? Because we are raised in a culture that does not appreciate the higher values and do not recognize them as relevant. This attitude, this a-pathetic and ignorant response to the higher values, is a mighty Epic Fail!
There is a salient quote from a guy named Erasmus that summarizes my approach (literally and figuratively), and what I mean by pursuing the higher values:
"When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left I buy food and clothes."

Discuss...

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Re: Death by silence?

Post  RocketScienceMom on Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:19 am

Sean, we can chat with each other, if nothing else, right?

I am not sure why this forum has been empty of conversation. I admit I haven't checked in about a week. Perhaps we need to ask le sto to put a link on her site to it? I know she's got one on AE (or at least I think I know).

Your post might help muster up folks.

Oh, maybe we need a contest or something, with a cool AE prize at the end, for some kind of creative post or something or other. Or maybe folks are too busy getting videos out. Or maybe they are burnt out from the internets due to election coverage (I am getting there).

Or maybe ... I just don't know.

I am here. I will help if I can. Surprised

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Mechanics

Post  JSto on Sun Oct 19, 2008 3:31 am

This isn't JSDC or my Twitter; it's a new site and a new sub-brand. And, it's a sub-brand of brands that do not have large international recognition (ie you aren't piggy backing on Harry Potter or something easy, for example).

You have to grow it with continuous conversation and content that is unique. That should happen regardless of numbers. I wrote on JSDC with very low numbers for years before it picked up, and when it did there was so much going on there that everyone stayed. You have less than a dozen entries, you can't expect it to be sticky yet. When JSDC first received a significant bump there were over 400 original entries and 200 original photos: all organic to my narrative. I wasn't pushing anything: I was just doing what made sense to me creatively. Success is the point were preparation and opportunity meet and you guys still simply have some developing to do so that you can grow larger interest when that door opens.

I've been building communities both independently and attached to large brands for years and I learned from the best, so I'd say I do know what I'm talking about to some degree when I say there is quite a bit of care involved and leadership necessary. Like a garden!

Your overall point I see as more valid, but not to this particular project at this stage. The time for despairing is over. Instead of going about that, what about studying successful communities and learning from the way they approach their work. Online networking. Tweaking the UI of the community to better serve needs. Building editorial that is meaningful. Creating a series on media consolidation or a relevant theme. Or any number of things that will make this place a place like no other place? I believe all that is in the mission statement, anyway.

And remember; it should be fun. :-)
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Introducing a New Character…

Post  Zathman on Sun Oct 19, 2008 6:40 am

…and so it was on the 19th day of the Orange month that the Zathman had decided to make his presence known…
Difficulties are meant to rouse, not discourage. The human spirit is to grow strong by conflict.
—William Ellery Channing
Greetings ladies and gentlemen. It is unfortunate that I should find myself joining this community at a time when hope is apparently hanging by a thread. However, it is with great honor that I should receive the opportunity to swoop in at such a time that I may make the fact aware that there are people out there who support Jessica Stover, Artemis Eternal, and the Wingmen.

Despair truly is a funny thing; It is completely self-manufactured by unnecessary doubts and reservations. When those who are outside the realm of your head look in upon you, they can't help but chuckle; There are many more opportunities all around you that you stop recognizing when you allow yourself to sink into the recesses of your mind. You have absolutely no reason to escape to such a dark place!
You will either step forward into growth or you will step back into safety.
—Abraham Maslow
You've gone ahead with this great project, that is the Wingman Central. Should you lose hope, you can only find yourself going backward. What will you gain by doing that though? Keep hope, and move forward with your dreams. Open your eyes to the sight of a successful Wingman Central, and it shall form before your eyes. Open your ears to the sounds of a noisy and excited Wingman community, and the volume shall grow to such a wonderful level. Open your mind to the strength that being a Wingman provides, and you shall no longer feel the tiresome effects of being a Wimp.
To accomplish great things, we must not only act, but also dream, not only plan, but also believe.
—Anatole France
Why is it that you are here? Is it because you believed in something? Was it Artemis Eternal? Or Jessica Stover? Certainly you believed in something, otherwise you would not be here. Had you dreamed of an amazing community of like-minded fans? There is a reason why I am here. You planned this out, and you acted upon it. Though it seems after just a few weeks, you are starting to lose hope. You can not allow yourself to stop believing. No one can… Artemis Eternal is built on dreams and the belief that it will be a success. I have no doubt in my mind that it will be a success. Just as I have no doubt in my mind that Wingman Central can be a success with your strength behind it.
Keep on keepin' on. The journey may be discouraging but that is to test your mettle. Only the committed reap the rewards.
— Ken Darby
When an infant is born, can you tell what kind of leader they will be? Of course not. Nor can you tell whether or not they will become as successful as you would hope they would be. Merely weeks old, Wingman Central still has an incredible future ahead of it. With Jessica Stover as our inspiration, and Artemis Eternal as our calling, let us take Wingman Central and form it into the success we know it can become.

You can certainly count me on board. I even have a gift for Wingman Central: www.wingmancentral.net (registered for two years, currently forwarding to the blog, but if you'd like me to point the nameservers somewhere else, just let me know).

Alas, it is getting late, and I must seek the refuge of sleep. Fear not however, for I shall return another day.

…after an impassioned speech, the Zathman decided to call it a night, and so it was come to pass that he did…
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Re: Death by silence?

Post  Sean on Sun Oct 19, 2008 7:46 pm

welcome aboard, Zath. as glad as i am that you've joined us, I am hesitant to reply. because it seems like I'm the only one who posts... my name is so often shown as the last person commenting. I'm not bragging or implying that I'm the only one who cares or matters. it's just weird that my name abounds.

while my post is definitely disheartened and disappointed, it is not discouraged or despaired. i'm not hopeless and I haven't given up on this project. if I really didn't care anymore, i'd have simply walk away in disgust and said nothing. maybe I'd send my fellow founders a note.
anyway... I suspect (and am concerned) that many people who pass through here see a ghost town... and assume it's derelict and that no one comes here. as in, so why should they bother posting if no one is there to see it?
instead of, you know, contributing something and helping to build it up.
They want and expect JSto or us to do all the work, then sit back and be entertained by us. It's easier for them to not try. they see the forum as something to amuse them-- not be engaged in.
Jess noted quite correctly that You have to grow it with continuous conversation and content that is unique. And that's exactly my point. this blog/ forum is not going to grow-- to continue her garden analogy-- unless you water it with words and fertilize it with give a shit.
I believe in AE and this blog; and further, i believe it warrants greater participation.
you don't say you love your kid and then daily forget to feed it because you're "too busy."
I believe people should not need to be convinced or reminded to be involved in something they claim matters to them. not if they really care.

RSM- i considered the contest/ promotion idea. but if a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it... you can't have a game without players.
i mean, there's only so much a few people can do. a monologue is not a dialogue, we need people to offer new ideas and for bouncing ideas off of... to stimulate and perpetuate conversation.

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Re: Death by silence?

Post  Zathman on Sun Oct 19, 2008 10:59 pm

Good call Sean. It is quite apparent to me that there is only one course of action for us: Let us water the WingmanCentral with ideas, and fertilize it with actions!

There is so much to do, yet no clear plan. I agree, with so few, we can only dream of what can and should happen. For now, let us focus on the people and groups immediately around us. Inform friends, family, and internet acquaintances about WC. Encourage them to register* and participate.

For those who do come across our website, we should make sure we have positive (quality) entries for them to read and learn from.

We'll start small. We can't expect a big turnout even though there's already a couple hundred people who've donated to AE. We know they're out there, but we just have to find that little spark to make it all worthwhile for them.

Anyways, I don't think this certain thread needs to be open any longer - I intend to make some noise. So there won't be any silence to die from Smile

Posted From My Blackberry Curve 8310 (Sun, Oct 19, 2008 19:59:09 Local Time)

* = Hopefully the forum software here allows exporting user registration info in the event we plan to migrate to dedicated forum software. After all, we now have a domain we can use.
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Re: Death by silence?

Post  Dave on Tue Oct 21, 2008 9:30 pm

Gah. I'm back. My own silence has been largely attributed to the fact that in the last 4 weeks, I've spent 3 of them on the road for work with little or no Internet access. The other week involved numerous hours of overtime, resulting in lack of energy and initiative. That said.....I think I should be around a bit more now.

I agree with Sean's points to a certain extent. It is frustrating to know that there are so many Wingmen out there, yet so few who seem to have any desire to contribute to the community. It's sometimes hard to understand why others don't have the same amount of....hmm...zeal...as us. But....anyone who has read JSDC for any amount of time is aware that the Shade runs deep, and if someone like Jess, who is far infinitely more entertaining than Sean or I (sorry Sean), can't inspire them to become publicly involved, well, that says something. Hopefully in time as people become more familiar with what this community is about, they will come on board. And if nothing else, maybe they'll be reading it.

The fact of the matter is, we are still trying to come to terms with what we, as a community, want to be and what manner of content will appear on the blog. Hopefully, given time, Wingman Central will blossom. (Ha! Did you see what I did there? Blossom? Like the garden thing Jess mentioned? I swear.....sometimes I am so frakkin' clever.)
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Gasp! It lives!

Post  Katie on Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:57 am

Ha, in the few days I haven't checked on the forums, suddenly there's a spark of life! An actual conversation. Wonderful. Smile
Welcome, Zathman, and of course, thanks to those still sticking around. I guess it's true; you can't expect everything to work perfectly from the beginning. I think I found the deafening silence more confusing than disheartening. Then I realized how hard it is to think of interesting things to say into a room that has been quiet for a while.
My brother always tells me about this social study where it was discovered that on average, there's a lull in group conversation every 6-7 minutes. I wonder if something similar applies to forums?
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excellent! just as i planned.

Post  Sean on Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:00 pm

so what are you supposed to do if you've told your friends about AAE and this place... and they don't care? and these are people who would care about something like this. time to get better friends? i think a great many people are simply so exhausted by mundane concerns and so often disappointed, that finding emotional and intellectual energy required for a commitment of this magnitude is too much for them. life is a zero-sum game... only so much to spare.
if they don't have the energy to do this right, then they prefer to not do any of it.
i guess I can't fault them for that. indeed, i commend them for not going in half-ass... perhaps because they do care.

Katie- lull in conversation. i believe that does apply to forums.

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Re: Death by silence?

Post  RocketScienceMom on Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:20 am

Let me put this out there as an older member of The Shade. Perhaps not all of those supporting JSto are web2.0 minded. Some of us don't blog, use Facebook and/or Twitter only a little (if at all) and we probably keep our settings pretty locked down and approve only people we actually know to follow us.

So, given that, perhaps there are members out there with a lot they want to know but little they want to say at the moment. It isn't because we don't care, but it is because we don't think what we have to say is nearly as important as what JSto or you other young internet-creative types have to say.

Or maybe it's just me. Smile

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good point

Post  Sean on Thu Oct 23, 2008 5:02 pm

RSM- i think you hit on something there. we can conclude that there is no single reason for lack of involvement. i can believe that many visitors may have nothing (in their mind, at least) useful to add to our conversation.
even me, as much as i am online, i have no interest in participating in twitter, facebook and other forums. because i don't want to get involved or invested in something i don't intend to follow through on or commit to. most of them are time wasters anyway. for example, i love star trek, but i'm not posting in the forums... because i have no desire to chat with a bunch of strangers, besides the fact that no one there is saying anything really interesting that warrants my commenting. i made an exception here, because it is an exceptional project.
but despite what the common media conception is, not everyone lives online-- including me (get off my lawn!).

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Re: Death by silence?

Post  Zathman on Fri Oct 24, 2008 5:43 pm

On a personal note: Suspect I took months to sign up for twitter, I never expected to use it. Boy was I wrong :-) "over a thousand updates later..."
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